For avms that have NEVER bled

For all of you who have been diagnosed w/ an avm which has never bled, have you heard that by radiating it, it will actually increase the chance that it will bleed? One of my daughter’s neurosurgeons said that he sees an increase in rate of rupture of a previously unruptured avms after gamma knife or other radiation treatment.

No one has ever told me that, Lana. I certainly hope that it is not true!

wow, Ive never had a bleed, and had radiation the end of January, Now the doc did say to me the day before radiation that my AVM, was ( shunting) and will bleed, and I did read this in many places on the internet, that having radiation for avm, does not increse the chance of bleeding, its as if you have not treated the avm at all, till it shuts down,The radiation would not make it bleed, but didnt stop it from doing so, I dont know ,just something I read when I first found out about the avm I had,

Really? I doubt there is any data to back that up. I’ve been told that the the risk decreases as the AVM shrinks. Here is a study you might want to check out:

Click on the Obliteration and Complications After Gamma Knife link to view…

I would love to see more replies on this forum,Ive always wondered the same, what are the chances, and see if anyone ever had a bleed after radiation, My main concern after the radiation is getting my head pains under control, its nuts, never and I mean never until after radiation did I ever get so many head pains in different parts of my head,before the radiation six months ago it was alot less, now the pains sometimes are just terrible, doc has me on new meds that have done nothing yet, for around a month now, still get these crazy pains,sometimes its even hard to see,just crazy, so if you get a chance ,I would liuke to see others side on the radiation after effects, thanks so much, Caroline

Me to Lianne, its a very good topic as many of them are, cant wait to see what everyone has to say on this one

not to scare anyone, but dr. lawton from ucsf told me that he has seem many cases where bleeding occurs in a previously unbled avm after radiation treatment. he says its due to the radiation changing the morphology of the avm, and sometimes it can damage the draining vein.

From my understanding after to radiations the chance of bleed goes down. I have never heard of it increasing. I have not had a bleed so far. If this is true I would be interested in the data available. Would she be able to get any information from her doctor? I certainly hope this is not true too.

Just wanted to add to this again. What if you had embolization before radiation? This is something else I would be interested in knowing.

I have not heard of it either but I had Proton Beam treatment almost 30 years ago and still haven’t had a bleed. Several Drs. have commented that the larger ones are less prone to bleed so I don’t know if that is the case or not.

I have actually heard that smaller avms have a higher chance of bleeding than larger ones.

I am actually scared to death that I will bleed. I swim and play water polo and i have nighmares that I have a bleed and faint in the pool and sink to the bottom… :frowning:

But I really hope that that isnt true, I had gamma in march…

I know that this is an old forum, but today 10-15-09 is the first time I saw it.

I had the doctor who wanted to do a craniotomy on me say that at one time they thought that radiation
caused the avm to bleed, they found out that was not true. Radiation does not cause the avm to bleed.
He did not speak any difference in an avm that has bled and one that hasn’t.
Dr. Zager told me this May of 2009, he is an expert in the field.
I didn’t get the craniotomy, I chose to go to Jefferson for a second opinion, that is where I stayed.
I was treated with Stereotactic Radiosergy/GK on 7-22-09 by Dr. Rosenwasser, he is also an expert in the field.


I have read that it doesn’t increase the chance and then other articles that say it does so I think there is mixed opinions. I am suppose to have gamma knife and that is one of the things that scares me. I asked my neurosurgeon and he said there is no evidence to support that radiation causes an avm to bleed. I guess if I have gamma knife, I will have to pray he is right. I’m also worried of how radiation affect areas that are critical that are mm of where my avm is located.

I read this on this website but I have also read that radiation reduces the risk of a bleed on other reports?
The risk of hemorrhage from the AVM itself after treatment with radiation (e.g., stereotactic radiosurgery such as GammaKnife or LINAC) is not reduced, in fact may be slightly higher than normal AVM hemorrhage rates, till the AVM is completely obliterated by such treatment (which can take 2-3 years).

I have no clue but my Doc said doing nothing to it would give me a higher risk of a bleed. I had two embo’s then the radiation. I was not a good candidate for surgery. Either way there is a risk of a bleed , I doubt my chances are higher after radiation… I just go with the positive thinking that it will be fine. If I worried then I’d go crazy. There is a risk in everything we do… like crossing the street. lol :slight_smile:

I was wondering if having just Embolization alone could cause it to bleed? I was told by one doctor that by closing down the AVM it would not have as much room to flow and it would be under more pressure. I was told that after having two Embolizations. I am not a cadidate of Radiation because the AVM is still to large and I was told not to have any more Embolizations because of where the AVM is located.

wow omg ,
i never heard of that , thats scarey
i had my stereotactic radiation last yr now and i actually think i am getting worse not better … still having bad headaches and feeling sick cant travel far in a car cant stay up late and if i do its like i have been out on the beer … lol . i am due for my angi gram in dec to check to see hows its going …