Rare AVM in soft tissue near spine

Hey guys, I am new here as of today. 36 year old female. I have been dealing with back pain, and a lump near my spine for 4-5 years. Was told by many doctors it was a lipoma bc it was in the soft tissue and looked superficial. Even had an MRI that said i had a hemangioma, but was told to leave it alone. Recently it was grown and started throbbing. You can actually see it through my shirt. I had a CTA done which confirmed I have an AVM in the subcutaneous soft tissues of the lower back. It is huge. 4 cm (I am very small). It is fed by 9 bilateral intercostal feeders (between the ribs) Basically I have over 18 feeders to the AVM. Scary stuff. The CTA doesn't show for sure it is attached to the spine (we will have to do an angiogram to be sure). I didn't realize this, but apparently the placing and size of this is extremely rare. No one knows what to do with me and I feel like a freak show. I am terrified. My neurosurgeon consulted with 6 or 7 other doctors and they all agreed that surgery is not a good option b/c it is too risky and b/c of the size i would need major plastic surgery. He wants to do embolization with repeat angiograms to shrink it enough to do radiotherapy.

My questions are:

Has anyone heard of anything like this or knows a specialist in this area?

I am sending my imaging to doctors at Univ of Miami, Duke, and Dr. Spetzler in Phoenix. Does anyone have another recommendation? Maybe Mayo Clinic?

I was worried I am seeing the wrong specialist...would I need a vascular surgeon instead of Neuro?

Lastly, As far as embolization goes..with the size and complication of feeders is there a recommended interventional radiologist that is great for large, complicated AVMs? I am very concerned about the risk of embolization and an angiogram.

I am only 36. I have so much I want to do. Please if you can give me any advice I would appreciate it. I am trying to stay as calm as possible but it is hard.

Hello TByrd,

Your AVM sounds quite complicated, as most AVM's are. I know you are scared, that is a healthy response, it makes us cautious, just don't let it overwhelm you.

I’ve tried to be brief in describing my situation, however I wanted to be as complete as possible to give you as best a picture of my situation as possible. Keep in mind that every one of us and our AVMs are unique. I think we share some similarities with our AVM’s being spinal in nature. So I do not know if what I am offering can be considered advice or just simply my story. You’ll have to decide that for yourself.

I have an AVM entangled within my spinal cord tissue at C1 & C2. There is also an aneurysm attached (discovered in Jan. 2011) just on the outside of the spinal cord itself.

In 1989, during my second bleed, my AVM was discovered, but not the attached aneurysm, (imaging wasn’t as good back then) and I was told it was inoperable, it was too risky, I would mostly likely die or be tetraplegic.

On and off, over the years, I kept up with possible treatments. Quite a number of years ago I found out about the Cyber Knife, invented by Dr. Adler at Stanford Univ., in CA. He had treated a woman with the Cyber Knife who had an AVM in the same location as mine and he cured her. I lived in Michigan and was uninsured for a number of years so I couldn’t do anything about it.

Late in 2010 I became insured and in January of 2011 I found a hospital not far from me that had a Cyber Knife. I called and went to see the doctor there that was head of the Cyber Knife Department, an Oncologist, who immediately referred me to a Neuro-Interventional Surgeon. We did all new imaging tests and discovered the aneurysm that was attached to the AVM.

Because of the better imaging technology the newly discovered aneurysm, he thought, explained why over the years I had had a number of bleeds and did not suffer any paralysis or other lasting severe deficits. I was pretty much neurologically intact. My bleeds presented mainly with extreme headaches and vomiting and they would basically put me into a state just a step above comatose until the event resolved itself. That was generally a ten-day to two week hospital stay each time.

So in March of 2011 I had the aneurysm embolized. Then in November I suffered a major bleed, but this time it was the AVM within the spinal cord tissue itself that bled. This bleed left me tetraplegic. After five days in ICU they sent me to a Rehabilitation Hospital where I regained diminished use of both legs and my left arm, although with deficits too varying and numerous to list here. After a couple of months of rehab I regained about 70% use of my right arm.

In January 2012 we went back in and tried to embolized the part of the AVM that had bled. It was too small and of course very difficult to get to, but the Doctor thought he was able to embolized it. He then said he thought it may be possible to embolized the entire AVM so in March of 2012 I went back in for a final embolization.

When I woke up after the procedure all I wanted to know was if it was successful or not. It wasn’t. He had gone in, now for the third time, and decided that he couldn’t safely embolized it and didn’t do anything at all.

I have to admit here that I was furious. I don’t ever remember being that furious ever before. I wasn’t mad at the doctor, I was simply just livid. On the way to the hospital for that procedure I was thinking that I was either going to wake up cured or not wake up at all. I didn’t have the courage to think about waking up with even more, and possibly permanent, neurological deficits.

I said all that to explain this, with the caveat, I can never know for sure what caused what. However, I can theorize as to what happened.

I believe that after embolizing the aneurysm it changed the lesion’s architecture, the volume, pressure and route of the blood flow into and out of the AVM which put pressure where it hadn’t been before, on the smallest vessels within the AVM, and it ruptured and bled.

Should I have left well enough alone and not done anything? Should I have insisted on being treated with the Cyber Knife? They were not skilled enough to use the Cyber Knife on my AVM/Aneurysm, they used it mostly to treat cancer. They did say that maybe I should go and see Dr. Adler’s team at Stanford, but I feared my Insurance would not cover me going to CA. I also feared being so far from home. Did I make the right choice? To this day I do not know. Maybe the bleed was going to happen no matter what and maybe the embolization of the aneurysm is what allowed me to recover so much of my neurological functions. Maybe I still can have the Cyber Knife done. Maybe I can’t because now I have Onyx (glue) within some of my lesion. That is a question I failed to come up with prior to deciding to embolized the aneurysm.

So you see, I have experience of being partially treated and still have a plethora of questions. I do suffer with many neurological deficits now. I am not trying to discourage you nor am I trying to advocate that you do something or that you do nothing. I am attempting to show you that you can, and probably should get advice from as many sources as possible, but keep first and foremost in mind that your situation is unique, as you know, and that ultimately your decision has to be unique as well.

I’ve prayed for you that you have God’s strength and guidance in deciding what is best for you.

God Bless, Kim P.

Hello,

I did not have the issue you are dealing with; however, I did have Avm in my Spinal Cord and I want to recommend that you contact the office of Dr. Daniel Barrow at Emory University Hospital in Atlanta, Georgia. Dr. Barrow, if you do the research will find that he and his team of Doctors has been recognized as one of the nations leading neurologists in US regarding Avm's in the spinal cord and has written many of the articles concerning Avm in the Spinal Cord. He had told me if I had gone to any other neurologist in the US concerning the Avm that he collaborated with them at one time or another concerning Avm operations. Wish you the best but I do believe I would get Dr. Barrow opinion concerning your issue.

Jimmie D.C.

Hi Tbyrd,

I have a huge AVM on my thigh and lower abdomen. It is soft tissue with no organ or bone involvement. I am in the process of having it treated by Patricia Burrows in Milwaukee. She is listed at children's hospital but treats adults. She is predicting that she can totally get rid of the AVM. I am having my 8 embolization this week. I know I will have more because of the size but she is wonderful. She answers all our questions and walks through each treatment before and after with us. She even wrote a textbook on AVM's. This is a congenital AVM so I have been living with this for 57 years. I even had surgery in the late 70's and was very lucky to survive the 2 surgeries. The surgery did not work and afterwards I still had a growing AVM.

Best of Luck

Cheryl

Thank you Kim

Cheryl, how dangerous are soft tissue AVMs compared to others? How risky are these embolization procedures? I was recommended an IR over here in New Orleans where I live but I want to go to the best. Is there a lot of recovery after embolizations? I know nothing.

My AVM is in the muscle and tissue and that is good because there is uno involvement in the organs. It is rare as all AVM are rare especially outside the brain.

I have had no problems with recovery after an embolization. My doctor has used Alcohol, onyx, glue and coils. I am under general anesthesia for approx 4 to 5 hours and then I lay flat for another 6 hours. I go home the same day. I seem to have a high pain tolerance because I am generally on pain meds for a half day afterwards. I am a little tired for about a week but am pretty much back to normal activity within 48 hours. I have scheduled my embolizations about 4 weeks apart. Dr Burrows is well known and is one of the best IR docs treating AVM's. I am very pleased and she thinks that she will actually cure this.

Best,

Cheryl

TByrd, hello and my prayers are with you.

My son was diagnosed with an AVM (after 18 months of specialist visits) near his spine and surrounding his heart and lungs--quite a complicated case, and he was symptom free which defied logic because of the size and location. If not for a routine scoliosis test, I'm frightened of what may have occurred. Because of the size and location, it was recommended that we do nothing while Dr. Patricia Burrows, an intervention radiologist (in NY, and we're in Cincinnati) looked at my son's MRIs and scans and felt embolizations would be a proactive reaction to what he had going on. He's now had nine embolizations all done by Dr. Burrows. We followed her to NY and Houston. She's now in Milwaukee and has patients from all over the world. My son is now in a good place, and we know he'll have to be on top of his yearly exams. He was 16 when diagnosed and is now 23. Our experience with Dr. Burrows has been excellent, and I highly recommend at least a consult with her. We were able to do all of that electronically/over the phone from our home until it came time for the procedures. The downtime for our son was typically 1-2 days, and he'd return to school--a little tired with restrictions on lifting/carrying. I wish you the best.