So, what now!? Post AVM Embolization

Mike, you’re definitely in the best hands.

There are a few possibilities:

  1. The angio shows everything is 100% done.
  2. They do a further embo and that takes you to 100%
  3. They decide embo is unsuitable or inaccessible to glue up the last bit. If this happens, it may be you need to stick with the 98% or it may be that they use stereotactic radiosurgery to close up the remaining parts.

Whatever goes off, you’re among friends because we’ve got people who’ve gone through the self same stuff.

I think it is totally amazing that we can have surgery like this. I think of myself as very fortunate to live where I do when I do and be able to benefit from this kind of skill and technology. Michael J Fox has Parkinson’s Disease. His autobiography he called “Lucky Man”, reflecting on all that he has and that his Parkinson’s prompted him to re-evaluate life from the Hollywood dream he was previously part of.*

*I think this was the gist of it. It’s a while since I read it.

Its going to be fine.

Richard

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Beyond amazing that I have gotten here - in time & place - being in AZ 20 mins away from Barrow is quite helpful - considering I wound up in AZ after being born 500 miles from Chernobyl

Let alone, I feel beyond lucky to have a great communicative neurosurgeon

My AVM from the sound of things & it’s location(it’s towards the back of my head, behind my left ear) isn’t exactly operable(words of my neuro) - I asked about the Gamma Knife - my neuro said it does not apply to my case

I asked about these embos & how many can they do - his words: as many as we need. . . My case, I say 1-2 < that’s what I put together from the info online about current Onyx use, my neuro’s prediction of 95-98% occlusion & everything I read on here - I asked why no 100% on the 1st try - he said, that’s what we are hoping for - but, shooting for the 95%+

Everything & everyone oh here def helped a ton

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It’s done - 100% obliteration. . . Achieved on the first run.

This has been an insane experience

Today we did the angiogram, with me more awake than asleep. I seen it on the screen myself of what they are looking at. I seen the blocked off passages & where the die/flow stopped

I am nothing but amazed at this point. No headaches, after the angiogram I am getting a bit winded post angiogram tho. My 2nd down neuro explained again exactly on what my avm looked like to both my wife & I.

And, finally I got to speak to the main neurosurgeon that did this. He said I seen him once before, but it was when I was mostly paralyzed by severe pain - so not many faces are clear

I asked my other neuro every question I could think of. 3 months from procedure to full recovery, vasodilators like viagra & cialis are fine, asked about my trt - no conflict, I just need to stay on my bp meds now - he said, it’s just a good idea

Asked the main neuro on how many of my type cases he has seen in his career - he said about 50

Nothing else added, no shunts or coils

This is nothing short of amazing

I am so thankful for everyone on here, the info helped a lot to fill in the gaps of what is what

So, I’m still lifting my 10 pound weights & going for walks - we have no gyms anyway. Lol

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Mike,

Well done! It’s good to get through these things. I think you were mostly worried about pain but the horrendous pain you had before was from your bleed, not from either the angiogram or the embolisation, so you now know what an angiogram is like on its own. It’s not bad, is it? Normal to have a bit of a hangover for a day or two afterwards, depending on how much contrast material you ended up with.

The other thing that happened with me was I got some visual disturbances (scotomas) for a week or two post angio. These reduced in frequency as the contrast material was filtered out of my bloodstream.

Really great that you asked a bunch of questions and got them all answered. Well done on that front, too. It’s easy to forget some of the stuff you want to ask, so good to get those answered.

I think that’s the adventure over with. With a bit of luck, look after yourself for at least 3 months and resume normal life a little carefully and you’ll be there.

A good day, I think. Well done.

Richard

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Shoot, I made a list on my phone & as soon as I seen the Neuro guy that actually talks - me & the wife laid it on him. Answered everything - the main guy at Barrow who did the actual procedure is good, nice guy - just not talkative

Oh, yeah - I’m taking it easy. To have this thing break because of a mistake I made would surely feel quite dumb

But, yes - angiogram on it’s own is strange to say the least - but, it’s no huge deal

An Embolization on its own can’t feel great - but, it has to be about 1/3rd to half of what I was put through when this thing actually hemorrhaged

Again, great info on here - this AVM business is far for the faint of heart to say the least

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Ok well my embolisation was only 5 months ago so I may not be able to help completely but hopefully a little

Mine was apparently completely obliterated too. Aside from the first week after surgery where I had a LOT of issues, everything mostly subsided. My headaches disappeared and I no longer needed constant supply of pain killers 24/7, my eyes no longer felt like they were popping out of my head and I didn’t need 24/7 eye drops

But funnily enough I developed other things that were not there prior to surgery including tinnitus, whoosing sounds that are apparently not bruit but they can’t explain why or what they are. Also when I bend over, it feels like I’m going to pass out and I hear “the ocean sound”. But they are not concerned with any of that

I guess I was lucky that my headaches etc did disappear etc

I will say that for the first month or so I had new symptoms and things that slowly got better over time. I think when they are fiddling around in the brain for hours, they are irritating parts of the brain so it can take a while to recover. But in my case things mostly got better. Hopefully they will for you too :slight_smile:

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Thank you for sharing that - I always like getting other people’s stories & info. This stuff sure isn’t the easiest thing to deal with, that’s for sure

You didn’t have a rupture, correct?

My recovery is nothing short of miraculous. I just can’t really put it into words at times - it’s hard to believe what I was going through just a tad over two months ago.

I been back to work for the last week - still no crazy lifting or anything like that - but, I feel so much better than, let’s say 6 months ago. I developed so many symptoms that I over looked - I work in the heat, I’d have blurred vision, headaches/pressures on the left side of my head daily, along with a beating pulse in my left ear. . . . Now, I feel beyond better. Working in the heat for days now - nothing, I feel like there is a absence of pressure. No pain - no anything. I know I push myself a tad hard at times, but I been trying my best to be safe as possible + me & wife do daily fasted walks of 2.5 miles every morning. . . Unfortunately, I dropped a little weight - when I say little, I mean little - I’m still huge. And, I don’t even lift weights over 15 pounds - they said it should be 10 - but, I had a 15 pound weight left, so I started lifting that a bit.

Two months, none of this seemed to be within reach

What a year - but, so far so good

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No mine didn’t rupture. I did put a full story up in one of my posts just before if you want a boring detailed view lol.

That’s interesting as I had very similar symptoms as you explain and I also do a physical job in the heat too

But I’ve been scared to do what I used to do as it is “extreme” physical. I’m really unsure of what I can and can’t do tbh

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Not me - I’m just crazy & push limits < but, I have had less probs now than way before the procedure was complete

Only thing I forgot to mention is my sleep is still a bit off - I still require a bit of sleep aid to sleep well - but, I already did eat before this all happened. But, I did use to sleep a bit better - yet, it seems to be improving with time

PS just read your story that you posted - wow, yeah - weird stuff. I’m glad mine turned out the way it did - if they just found it, I wouldn’t of believed em - I was that guy my whole life - if it’s not broke, don’t fix it

I have terrible trouble sleeping. Shocking! But it’s unrelated to avm

The strange thing is… I pushed myself to the limit prior to surgery (i was supposed yo ve at home doing nothing until surgery) (Ok it was only a short time) as I needed money so I pushed and I passed out and ended up in emergency dept. It didn’t rupture but I had put pressure on things from multiple factors, fainted and vision went out… Now since surgery… I won’t push myself as I’m scared! Weird

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Well, me too actually

I push myself to the limit still - just the limit is a tad different. I monitor myself very closely - I check my BP every few hours when working. Along with a full time watch of odd feelings - nothing so far at all

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Ok I’m still in the process of reading your posts/ story but from what I’ve seen, maybe done it down if you can for a bit longer

Each to their own and I know I wanted to go out and lifts weights asap. And my Dr. Told me I could start slowly pretty quickly.

But now that I’m allowed to I’m a little worried to.

There’s not really much “misinformation” that I’ve personally seen asnd I understand it’s a tricky topic with lots of variables.

But for a Dr to say you’re cured! It’s obliterated! Very small chance it can reoccur but you’re exactly the same as everyone else and can do what they do… that sounds great!!! But when I ask when I can start my car racing again… There’s a big pause and they ask car racing? Could there be a smash?.. well yes small chance of a bingle… Then I ask if I can start surfing again… yes great you can but if wear a vest incase you suffer a stroke in the water, you will float and not drown… Ok I want to go back to lifting weights… Dr says that’s ok if you take it easy…

My biggest concern is am I really the same as other humans and I can do all they can do? Or is the Dr propping me up?

That’s honestly the most stressful part of this. Getting simple answers from a Dr.

If the avm has been obliterated and I’m like any other human being then a bump to the head shouldn’t matter? The risk of stroke for me in the water would be less than most 70 year olds in the water? Etc etc
Something doesn’t quite make sense. If they are just trying to cover themselves and told me that, is be fine with it.

But one said there’s NOTHING you can do that can wreck what we’ve done in your brain. Not weight lifting, not running on hard ground, not lifting weights at work, not getting your heart rate to 200bms while doing my job. But then the others say differently or have restrictions

I’m confused and I JUST WANT TO LIVE LIFE (But safely with honest information)

I’d rather them say I don’t know… if they don’t know. Or you’ll be right but we have to cover ourselves… Or there’s a 2% chance something can happen etc

Right now my life is at a standstill as everything I do (especially my work) is insane physical and there’s no other job I can do. I own the business and it will die without me

Very confused

Well, not much I can add - I’m in the same exact boat.

I was gonna add this - and, it will def not going to give you much peace of mind - but, it is what it is

My Neurological Team at Barrow Neurological Institute was amazing - we really got down on a real level - everything made sense

The longest total obliteration case they currently have is 5 years old - that being said, you can make your own conclusions

You/I - We, are nothing short of walking miracles that are held together by bioengineered glue that was only perfected just a few years back

Do what u gotta do - I am

But, safety now to me has a whole new meaning - no more 500 pound deadlifts, no more 350 pound benches & so on - I am a ok with it - I design workouts in my spare time, I suppose I needed the challenge

I been working out much much smarter & not harder - it’s working very well. My diet is on key, I stopped smoking cigarettes & everything else that I am doing has been approved by my neurosurgeon

Do I look like a guy that was close to death two months ago? And, I def don’t feel like it

It’s amazing to be this lucky - when I was going through this, I said I’d put up a winning lottery ticket to just live - I am waaaaay better than just alive now

I was gonna put up a picture of what I look like now, but I can’t figure out how from my phone

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@AlwaysCurious, @mike_az_21

I see what you’re saying and I understand (a little; I’m no weightlifter, so I don’t really understand). I think the trouble is that you are both very early post op and it took me months to feel properly functional again. I think the trouble is that people vary so much in the impact that the operation has and the time needed to recover. So, you’ll find the docs being hesitant about what to start and when because they don’t know what you’ll really need. I think it just depends.

The point about possibly having a seizure is worth noting. I’m sure I’ve read of someone here (@Shea) in the last week who has effectively drowned twice and somehow got away with it but it is not really to be chanced, is it?

So… start real slow. Treat yourself as having had quite a major impact. Great if everything feels fine again but especially if anything remains, take it easy. Or, I’ll set Merl (@ModSupport) on you. Merl is very happy to say what not taking it easy – or pushing yourself too much – is like. And it ain’t pretty.

Best wishes,

Richard

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The question is: Why walk when you can run? Lol

My BP this am after a 2.5 mile walk was 124/72 < I have not had blood pressure that low - ever

I feel too good not to enjoy it - Compared to my usual, I am running at about 25%

But, totally everyone is different - from what I have gathered, my case is quite not typical - but, no case really is

I haven’t had a cigarette in I don’t even know how long, I still haven’t picked up anything over 20 pounds(well, 30 2x & I did do 8 push-ups) - I stopped the pushups because I felt a tiny bit of a odd type pressure in the left side of my head - that was a week ago - I haven’t tried since - I’m into week 9 of recovery

So far so good, is all I can say - in my opinion I’m not “over doing it” < but, I do consistently think about this - Safety definitely comes 1st

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I agree.

The key is not to overdo it. I guess the only ones who know if we are doing too much is us. If we are honest with ourselves.

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I like that - if we’re honest with ourselves. . . Easier said than done some times

But, I am now - I don’t want to wind up feeling stupid “man, I shouldn’t have done that” would really suck to put it lightly - I have lost a lot of people due to self negligence. One mistake, it really can cause you your life -

I feel like I truly 2nd guess everything I do - which for me, is actually a good thing

It’s very hard for me to call all of this crap a true positive - but, at this point it really is

It cleaned up my life a lot - and, I see things much differently. . . I never took things for granted, I Acknowledged things that deserved it all of my life - but, now it all means just that much more

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I do think there are positives we can draw from experience like this. Not everyone perhaps, but some of us.

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Hey Mike,
I’ve been watching from the background here and although DickD hasn’t ‘…set Merl (@ModSupport) on you…’ :smile: I’ll put in my 10 cents worth into the conversation.

From my experience none of us have exactly the same symptoms, treatments nor outcomes, so trying to gauge our personal situations verses another patient’s is near on impossible. Although some neuros have the ‘All fixed’ mentality, the processes/surgeries they put us through may well ‘treat’ the initial cause, the flow on effects of some treatments can be MASSIVE. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve been given the ‘all fixed’ line, only to find, it ain’t ‘all fixed’ at all.

“Merl is very happy to say what not taking it easy – or pushing yourself too much – is like. And it ain’t pretty.”
“…it ain’t pretty.” ??? I’ll correct that… … its %$#^&*# UGLY. Now, I did a stupid, dumb, idiotic thing. I tried to measure up to others both in their activity and expectations. ‘Well, if ‘John’ can, so can I…’ The fact that ‘John’ hasn’t had major neurosurgery didn’t come into my thinking. The other (dumb) thing I did was compare my abilities before to my abilities after “I could before, so I can now…” and I pushed to achieve those goals. DUMB, DUMB, DUMB. My tolerances and my abilities had all changed.
Look, I can sit here and say all of this now. At the time I was telling myself I was building up tolerance, but the more I pushed, the more my body pushed back. But I wanted it right and I wanted it right NOW!!! And I didn’t listen to my body. It was telling me, but getting back to ‘normal’ was my goal. The brain ain’t like a muscle, so flexing it, pushing it to the limit doesn’t help. That I can guarantee you. I ended up back in hospital needing further surgery.

That ‘Honesty’ thing, hmmmm. I had and I suppose to a point still do, have a habit of wearing masks (metaphorically) ie People ask how you are? and with a fake smile, you grit your teeth and say ‘Yea, I’m fine…’ when the reality is far from fine. I had some good masks, but my wife could see through them, damn it. My eyes give it away and for those who know… …it’s a dead giveaway. For a while there I had the idea that if she thought I was OK, I must be OK. I can look back now and say I was only fooling myself, because she knew her favourite line became “I told you so…”

That ‘acceptance’ thing Ohh, that was a hard pill to swallow. I didn’t want to accept THIS. The reality was I had no choice, but THIS, no way. It was actually the wife who put a stop to it. She could see what I was doing to myself by pushing all of my limits, so could I even if I did want to acknowledge it. But having it pointed out was a bit confronting and from there I (reluctantly) started to accept. Even today, 7yrs on from my last surgery I still battle with this. If the planets all align my meds are up, my symptoms are down, my pain is manageable, I can get things done BUT If I become symptomatic I know, those symptoms are only going to progress the more I continue. Sometimes, that can be manageable but sometimes my body tells me in no uncertain terms “Laydown or I’ll put you down” and it puts me down HARD

DickD’s line: “The key is not to overdo it. I guess the only ones who know if we are doing too much is us. If we are honest with ourselves”. Says it all really.

Says some idiot who didn’t listen.
Merl from the Moderator Support Team

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I don’t mind - it’s reality

That’s why I make my own final decisions. . . It actually reinforces my idea that no one else knows how we really feel. . . All fixed - in comparison to what? . . . It’s harsh, but it’s real. And, we need to understand that our own judgement calls can really make a difference - positive or negative

All fixed imo would be not having this to deal with in the first place - since that’s quite impossible, I’m learning on how to deal with what I have to deal with - goes along with everyone else. . . Everyone is so different. From us(the patients) to the MD or anyone on your medical team.

Like I said - I feel fine today, and I just want it to keep going in the same direction.

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